Helpful Video games’ Chris Kassulke on staying centered on making video games, not promoting NFTs

I loved assembly with acquainted gaming leaders at Gamescom and Devcom in Germany. One in all them was Chris Kassulke, who began the cellular recreation pubisher HandyGames together with his brother Markus and Udo Bausewein in 2000.

Kassulke has all the time been a fan of making an attempt out new issues, from the earliest smartphones within the days earlier than the iPhone to digital actuality. He was an early believer within the Nintendo Change and free-to-play video games.

A few of these issues labored out properly, and a few didn’t. However HandyGames discovered a solution to final for many years and get downloads within the tons of of hundreds of thousands. So it was attention-grabbing to listen to Kassulke say that he wasn’t concerned about non-fungible tokens (NFTs) after learning it intently.

Kassulke hasn’t seen a superb purpose for recreation builders to undertake NFTs, nor does he see the way it’s good for shoppers. As a substitute, he’s centered on making indie video games that ship good gameplay, just like the just lately launched Endling: Extinction is perpetually, which is a shifting recreation concerning the final of the foxes.

Helpful Video games has greater than 100 individuals and it’s hiring. It’s now a part of Embracer Group, as THQ Nordic acquired Helpful Video games on 2018.

Right here’s an edited transcript of our interview.

GamesBeat: Did you determine fairly early on that you simply’re not an NFT man?

Chris Kassulke: As I discussed, it’s actually concerning the worth that we don’t see for the patron. I see it when making an attempt to finance one thing for the subsequent product, stuff like that. However I’m unsure if a personality from Sport A, you possibly can transfer simply to Sport B, as a result of then I can’t inform the precise story. It is likely to be attention-grabbing for weapons or one thing like that in particular video games. Additionally, once you’re shifting it from one platform to the opposite, it’s already very advanced, if it’s within the cellular area, from iOS to Google Play and a Samsung machine. That’s fairly advanced. In the event you do this from PlayStation to Xbox to Change after which to PC–or say you’re making an attempt to go from an Epic recreation to at least one you’ve downloaded on Steam, that’s one other massive subject. The issue is actual.

If somebody can present me one good instance the place it brings worth to the patron, and never simply by telling you possibly can you promote it for extra money sooner or later–that’s only a Ponzi scheme. That’s not what we wish to do. We wish to develop nice video games. We wish to inform tales with our video games. As you possibly can see, Endling tells a protracted story. The place can I promote an NFT in that? It doesn’t really feel good. That’s what I believe.

GamesBeat: I talked to different individuals like Will Wright. He didn’t have a vociferous protection of NFTs, however he did assume that as a result of they’re very centered on user-generated content material, that’s an space the place with the ability to correctly determine who created what and giving them some form of possession stake issues.

Kassulke: However should you can copy it once more and promote it once more? That’s my drawback that I’ve there. Everybody could make no matter good apes or no matter on the market. The place’s the distinctiveness?

GamesBeat: They watched how individuals ripped one another off with The Sims. The Sims content material was created again and again, after which it was additionally stolen again and again. They’d no resolution for that.

Kassulke: I see a whole lot of issues with the authorities around the globe. Not directly, if I purchase one thing for 5 {dollars} or no matter and promote it for $5,000, that’s revenue. Whichever authorities needs to take a whole lot of that. You haven’t any resolution. Maybe you possibly can have a market or no matter, however good luck with that. You’re a developer. It’s best to maintain that on the finish of the day, and I want you luck. I see no resolution there. There are too many challenges. I like challenges. We do a whole lot of prototyping. We do a whole lot of new expertise. We did the primary cellular video games on the market, the primary free-to-play video games. However they went in a path we don’t wish to go.

GamesBeat: Has that affected your view of the metaverse as properly? Do you are feeling the identical approach about that?

Kassulke: I don’t like–everyone seems to be looking the metaverse, however I doubt there’s one for the time being. Sure, a whole lot of investments are going to the metaverse. Lots of people are saying, “That is the metaverse.” No. We’ve got video games the place we are saying, “This could develop right into a metaverse if it has sufficient customers behind it.” However is that the place I wish to go, like Second Life? I haven’t seen something like that. Once I noticed the posts from Mark Zuckerberg, he’s promoting the metaverse now like that? You’re destroying stuff there.

Is there a Minecraft or Roblox or no matter that may evolve into that? Perhaps. However will or not it’s one thing evolving the place one firm holds it? I doubt that. It’s harmful. Particular markets across the globe aren’t permitting Fb or permitting Google. If you wish to have an actual metaverse you have to be in each nation around the globe. That’s not what I see for the time being. These are the challenges we have to overcome with that. Perhaps there is likely to be a metaverse, however I don’t like what I see for the time being.

GamesBeat: Again to plain previous video games, then.

Kassulke: Single-player video games. I’ve no drawback with that. We’ve got multiplayer video games. That’s not a problem. I believe everyone seems to be concentrating on NFTs. I’m fairly joyful I didn’t spend money on NFTs, as a result of I might have much less cash than if I put it within the inventory market, which can also be a bit loopy for the time being. Let’s see the place it goes. However at present what we see is that the customers just like the premium mannequin once more, even within the cellular recreation area, due to guys like Netflix and another guys who’re doing subscription companies once more. You had issues like Jamster and Jamba right here in Germany again within the day, the place they’d subscription companies occurring. Now everybody goes again to subscription companies, like Amazon Prime. We see Luna arising there. Everyone seems to be speaking about Netflix and their subsequent strikes. Let’s see the place that goes. However for that, free-to-play video games aren’t what they’re in search of. They’re in search of premium video games. They wish to inform tales. That’s the place we come from. We’ve got shopper items expertise with video games.

Once you play Endling–you possibly can take a look at a whole lot of the media that’s on the market. You see gamers crying on the finish of the sport, and throughout the recreation as properly. They’ve the largest feelings they’ve had in video games for a very long time. That’s not one thing a whole lot of guys can do. It’s one thing we wish to do. Maybe you possibly can name it an inventive form of recreation. However when you’ve got a narrative behind there, a recreation that goes past the standard taking pictures–it’s not an enormous recreation. You possibly can end it in 4 or 5 hours. However it touches you. It’s like with sure motion pictures. You consider it. It doesn’t simply exit of your head. That’s what we produce.

We are able to’t do this simply with NFTs. NFTs are about enterprise. Once I see what occurred within the Philippines, individuals going bankrupt now as a result of they have been informed they may very well be wealthy if they may spend money on video games–they spent actual cash to purchase their approach right into a recreation, as a result of they hoped it may get larger in a while. I’m unsure if we want that. It should harm the entire recreation business. Additionally, within the dialogue concerning the metaverse–a whole lot of finish shoppers are speaking about NFTs and blockchain and metaverse all in the identical breath, as a result of it’s one thing they don’t perceive, actually. We’re speaking extra about video games and what the experiences will be there. We have to come again to belief, to the feelings of video games. That’s what we wish to do. Not many video games are creating single-player video games anymore these days. I’m probably not sad there.

At this time we launched, for instance, Are You Smarter Than a Fifth Grader? It’s not the largest IP ever, however once more, you’re enjoying one thing with your loved ones. You possibly can play as much as eight gamers on one machine, as a result of it brings the household collectively. When do you play a quiz recreation? It’s not often on-line, as a result of it isn’t that a lot enjoyable. You play it once you’re across the Christmas tree, enjoying a recreation collectively. Irrespective of if it’s on the Change or on a PC or on a TV. That’s what we wish to have. It’s a superb feeling, once you play a recreation like that. I’m not interested by shit I must pay for time and again. I don’t want to purchase three extra creatures to mix and get wealthy. That’s not what I would like. It’s not why I wish to make video games.

Everybody that joins the video games business, they love video games. It’s a ardour. I don’t see the fervour round NFTs for myself. That’s why we are saying no. If there’s somebody on the market who says, “Yeah, I wish to go for it,” do it. Get wealthy. Burn some enterprise capital. I don’t actually care. It’s a special factor. However for me, don’t destroy the video games market with one thing like that. That’s not good.

GamesBeat: How is the Embracer life going? They’ve so many studios alongside one another.

Kassulke: Sure, however it’s working. They’ll produce their video games, what they assume makes most sense for his or her studios. I like the liberty we’ve got there. I’m not afraid that somebody can also be creating an analogous recreation. It’s the identical household. In the event you undergo the halls, it’s fairly attention-grabbing to see every thing that now belongs to the Embracer Group, however I’m not afraid of, no matter, Espresso Stain. We are able to study from one another. They’re doing stuff in a different way. I’m not afraid in any respect.

GamesBeat: Are you guys form of making video games with out a want for milestones to show to the writer that you simply’re making progress?

Kassulke: We’re the writer and developer. We’re working with our builders on milestones after all, as a result of that’s a part of that. However I believe COVID modified quite a bit. We see a whole lot of studios, and never solely inside Helpful Video games, that we work with–they obtained hit closely. Working from house wasn’t serving to. It affected everybody. Everybody considered how distant work will be built-in in the long term. However we see in the entire video games business that it’s probably not serving to.

It’s a group effort to develop such an enormous recreation. We’re again from three guys creating a recreation. It’s about 20 guys, 50 guys, 100 guys and extra creating a recreation. That must be a superb expertise. That’s an enormous problem now, coming again collectively to provide a recreation. That’s the subsequent problem for everybody that’s creating larger video games for the time being. That’s why so many video games across the globe are delayed, I believe. The standard needs to be there, when every thing suits collectively once more.

GamesBeat: I talked to at least one firm that was getting funding from Netease. They stated they didn’t ask for milestones. They stated, “We belief you.”

Kassulke: I’m sorry. I’ve been within the business for thus lengthy. There should be some form of milestones. In fact it may be very versatile. Issues come up on a regular basis, whether or not it’s a brand new Unity model, a brand new Unreal model, no matter. New platforms would possibly come alongside. A recreation ought to be developed for all of the platforms on the market, whether or not it’s PC, PlayStation, Xbox, Change, Stadia, Luna, even cellular. Even when it’s premium. However that’s what we wish to push additional, step-by-step. We showcased Wreckfest now on cellular. We’re showcasing that right here on the sales space. That’s attainable on a cellular machine now.

If you wish to check out the subsequent issues, that’s the place you wish to have a recreation. The IP is getting stronger. With each new platform you attain new shoppers. Plus, you’re maybe reaching somebody who performed on PS4 prior to now, and now they wish to play on cellular as a result of they’re on the run. They’ve modified their conduct. That’s a giant subject. You have to launch a recreation on each single platform on the market, regardless of if it’s–take Stadia for instance. I believe that’s the subsequent step. Why not? I prefer it. I just like the pushes we see, whether or not it’s from Amazon or different colleagues, and even from Samsung, the place they’re incorporating with another companions. Let’s see it.

In the event you’d informed me 20 years in the past, when black and white telephones have been nonetheless round–we’d simply launched our first racing recreation on black and white gadgets, with ringtones and stuff like that. It was 64K. Now you might have Wreckfest. We’re speaking a few six gigabyte recreation on a cellular machine, and it performs easily. That’s implausible. It’s simply 20 years. We’re speaking about evolution there. If we take a look at the place the gadgets are going, we will play on our TVs with none consoles. I’d by no means have considered that.

GamesBeat: How many individuals do you might have now?

Kassulke: We’ve got greater than 100 inside Helpful Video games. We’ve got a studio near Cologne. They developed Fifth Grader. I’m going there tonight for the discharge occasion. We additionally work with a whole lot of exterior builders, regardless of if they arrive from Spain, Denmark, or Sweden. We don’t care. It simply has to suit. Additionally they want to love the premium mannequin. If it’s free-to-play, that’s a superb factor. Inside the Embracer Group we’ve got Easybrain or CrazyLabs. We are able to all the time level you in the precise path should you’re a developer.

In the event you’re an indie recreation and also you wish to launch it in a field, come to us. That’s a pleasant story for builders, as a result of releasing one thing at retail isn’t so widespread anymore. Now, thanks to a different Embracer buyout with the fellows from Restricted Run, it’s no drawback. The core players that also wish to have a field, I believe a whole lot of guys are nonetheless lacking on the market. If somebody needs to purchase it on-line, they will nonetheless do it. Provide your recreation to as many individuals as attainable. In the event you take a look at a recreation like Endling, I believe we’ve got 24 totally different languages supported, one thing like that. You have to provide what you need to as many individuals as attainable on the market.

GamesBeat: What’s essentially the most profitable Helpful Video games launch up to now?

Kassulke: It actually relies upon. Townsmen continues to be one in all our greatest IPs. I believe it’s greater than 20 years previous now. It’s nonetheless a constructing technique recreation like Settlers coming from PC, coming from cellular. Then our newest successes are, for instance, issues like Endling, like Hen Police. There’s some fairly darkish humor there. Perhaps a bit of bit too darkish for some People. However that’s precisely what shoppers need. They need one thing new. They wish to return and be reminded of the previous days the place you may nonetheless make some jokes.

With Endling, it’s a recreation–we by no means noticed so many YouTubers and influencers actually crying in a recreation. You get these feelings again. Perhaps it was dangerous timing, as a result of Stray was launched on the identical day, and Stray sucked up every thing. However that’s nice. This recreation is a long-term vendor. It’s doing properly. It’s 96 % on Steam. Similar with Hen Police at 93 %. I can’t complain. As I discussed, an indie recreation is totally different from a double-A or a triple-A recreation. It’s all the time about the long term. I inform our builders that it’s not a dash. It’s all the time a marathon. You have to give attention to the long term with each single recreation, and in addition launch on each single platform on the market. That’s the important thing.

I see no points with that. If I wish to make quick cash I can rip off somebody for NFT cash someplace. Construct up any recreation and put NFTs in it. A yr or two in the past that was the massive subject. Everybody requested once we have been doing one thing with NFTs and blockchain. Not for the time being. Give us that. Perhaps we see one thing that is sensible. We see a whole lot of builders and their pitches. No one actually needs to develop that.

GamesBeat: Do you assume that’s dying out for the time being?

Kassulke: Some persons are utilizing their brains now. Let’s put it that approach. They’re interested by what they will develop. The place’s the revenue for the top shopper? It’s not about coloring my gun. That’s been finished in Counter-Strike with out NFTs. You should buy no matter and promote it. That’s the subsequent step. Present the patron the worth of NFTs. That’s the extra sensible approach, going step-by-step. Not simply making an attempt to hunt for large cash now. If I lose my password every thing is gone. I might need invested some huge cash.

I’ve invested a whole lot of time in video games. What number of hours do I’ve in Counter-Strike? Holy shit. I don’t wish to inform my spouse. However it’s about that. There are many video games on the market the place you make investments a whole lot of time and keenness, regardless of if it’s Counter-Strike, if it’s Name of Responsibility, if it’s PUBG, no matter. Sure, you make investments time. However once you’re investing cash–a whole lot of players invested some huge cash in World of Warcraft as properly.

GamesBeat: What number of hours can you place into one thing like Wreckfest?

Kassulke: Limitless. The cellular recreation is precisely the identical model you could play on the PlayStation. You possibly can tune in every thing that you’ve. You could have all of the programs in there. The one factor we didn’t implement was from the Kickstarter backers again within the day, the particular automobiles they promised these individuals, as a result of we couldn’t management that. However we’re going the premium approach once more. Shoppers can purchase the sport, similar to on Change and stuff like that. You could have a premium title obtainable, not a free-to-play recreation that’s filled with promoting. Even in a racing recreation you may usually count on that.

I’m interested by how that performs versus all the opposite video games on the market. Shoppers are at present crying quite a bit about premium. They’re a bit fed up with promoting in video games. We’ve seen modifications within the promoting area from iOS. Shoppers want to know that should you don’t like ads, should you don’t like in-app purchases or microtransactions, then possibly shopping for a recreation for a one-time price is another choice. That’s what we’ve been focusing on for fairly some time. It’s an academic factor. I’m fairly joyful that THQ Nordic allow us to do it, as a result of that’s our mission. It’s about coming again to premium video games on cellular. It’s fairly distinctive.

GamesBeat: What’s the German business like proper now?

Kassulke: We see a whole lot of new fundings. The German business is getting a whole lot of assist now from the German authorities. We didn’t obtain something for fairly a very long time. Now we’ve got it. And now we have to show from the business aspect that the cash they invested into these corporations is being translated into good video games, and good video games are translating into good gross sales. That’s the subsequent step.

Once more, it’s not a dash. If the politicians wish to see releases inside a yr, that’s not attainable. That’s not how the video games business works. The politicians must study from the video games business. That’s why occasions like this are a superb factor. It takes time. We see that even the individuals in command of the funding are speaking to us as publishers. Growth is one subject. Discovering the precise writer that may then take a product they cross-financed and distribute the title, that’s the subsequent step.

It’s straightforward to launch a recreation on Steam, on iOS or Android. Making it successful, and even simply getting any revenue out of it, it’s not that straightforward anymore. Ten years in the past it will be simpler. These days you have to launch on each platform. You have to launch larger titles as a boxed product, maybe. There’s an enormous collector market on the market that buys each single Change launch. We noticed that right now. I noticed a submit the place a man stated his 1400th launch he collected was Are You Smarter Than a Fifth Grader. Holy shit! The place do you place 1400 of these containers? In the event that they’re crying for video games, crying out that they wish to purchase one thing, why not give it to them?

The German market was not that massive within the PC and console enterprise for a time. The Swedish guys have been the massive guys. There was an absence of publishers. These days there’s no lack of publishers anymore. We have to get larger builders inside Germany – 20 guys, 40 guys. These are those creating the subsequent double-A video games, the triple-I video games as we name them, the highest indie video games. You don’t do this with two or 4 guys anymore. Sure, Espresso Stain did a kind of video games just lately, the place they did it with 4 or 5 guys, however that’s actually uncommon.

In the event you’re looking, as a writer, for the subsequent indie recreation, you wish to see that it’s a secure group of men which might be already working collectively, the place you possibly can make investments cash into them and construct up one thing collectively. You possibly can go to the subsequent step and say, “We have to construct up the graphics. We’d like higher UI, higher sound.” That’s the place we may also help as a writer, as a result of we’ve got every thing in-house. QA is lacking at a whole lot of smaller studios. They’re completely dwelling for making the title. Advertising and marketing isn’t there. You possibly can’t do this as a small developer. That’s not what you’re an knowledgeable in. They’re restricted of their assets. That’s why the writer is there. That’s what they perceive. That’s additionally why the government-funded establishments are educating the builders.

I wouldn’t speak about an “indie apocalypse,” like a whole lot of guys have talked about in the previous few years. However when you’ve got an awesome recreation, when you’ve got excessive rankings, it’s nonetheless not an computerized success. You have to put it in entrance of everybody’s eyes these days. The press has modified quite a bit, too, particularly over COVID right here in Europe. Who’s printing something anymore? Streamers confirmed up, utterly new streamers. Once I see what number of streamers and influencers we discuss to these days–it’s not a matter of simply hitting one man and it’s successful. Now you have to contact practically everybody.

You have to plan your launch. Releasing a recreation concurrently on all platforms, that’s what the primary events need. In any other case they are saying, “Effectively, I don’t wish to be the final one to get the discharge.” That’s a problem. Financing is a giant problem there. Once you take a look at what a gap day prices, for indie builders, that’s not possible. You want muscle groups. In the event you don’t have the muscle groups, you have to have a whole lot of brains. In any other case, your recreation is launched, however it’s one out of, no matter, 20 a day?